HS2

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raveydavey
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Postby raveydavey » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 8:47 pm

I may have mentioned this before, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but it's posted here in response to the two points made above.

Mrs ravey recently had to go to that there London for work and had to catch the 05.30am train to be sure of being at the office for 9am - it's not just getting to London, it's then getting to wherever you want to be in London from Kings Cross. An upgrade to 1st class cost a not unreasonable £15, which included a full cooked breakfast and pretty much unlimited hot drinks and I'm told there were quite a few "commuters" / regulars up front on the train from what she could see.

The journey time to London has been padded out to "improve reliability" - the idea that adding 20+minutes on to the actual journey time means that the train is less likely to be late. I can remember going to London on the train in the 80's on a school trip and it took under two hours. So in the last 30 years we seem to have gone backwards despite all the 'upgrades' that the ECML has enjoyed.

That said, the current railway network is bursting at the seams. There is virtually no scope for additional services and no willingness to strengthen existing services with additional rolling stock (oh for the days when a BR manager could just decide that loadings warranted chucking a couple of extra carriages on the back of a popular train...), even if it were that simple.

I'm fully supportive of HS2 (assuming teleporting won't be perfected any time soon), but my real concern is that this country seems to enjoy tying itself in knots rather than getting stuff done and the timescales proposed are simply too long. Recent announcements do little to encourage me, that HS2.5 will ever reach Leeds.

But whilst we've got our transport wish list out, why don't we build a network of these instead? Capable of speeds comparable with jet aircraft and yet virtually silent... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train    
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Postby Brunel » Wed 25 Jun, 2014 11:27 pm

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cnosni
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Postby cnosni » Thu 26 Jun, 2014 1:38 am

raveydavey wrote:
I may have mentioned this before, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but it's posted here in response to the two points made above.

Mrs ravey recently had to go to that there London for work and had to catch the 05.30am train to be sure of being at the office for 9am - it's not just getting to London, it's then getting to wherever you want to be in London from Kings Cross. An upgrade to 1st class cost a not unreasonable £15, which included a full cooked breakfast and pretty much unlimited hot drinks and I'm told there were quite a few "commuters" / regulars up front on the train from what she could see.

The journey time to London has been padded out to "improve reliability" - the idea that adding 20+minutes on to the actual journey time means that the train is less likely to be late. I can remember going to London on the train in the 80's on a school trip and it took under two hours. So in the last 30 years we seem to have gone backwards despite all the 'upgrades' that the ECML has enjoyed.

That said, the current railway network is bursting at the seams. There is virtually no scope for additional services and no willingness to strengthen existing services with additional rolling stock (oh for the days when a BR manager could just decide that loadings warranted chucking a couple of extra carriages on the back of a popular train...), even if it were that simple.

I'm fully supportive of HS2 (assuming teleporting won't be perfected any time soon), but my real concern is that this country seems to enjoy tying itself in knots rather than getting stuff done and the timescales proposed are simply too long. Recent announcements do little to encourage me, that HS2.5 will ever reach Leeds.

But whilst we've got our transport wish list out, why don't we build a network of these instead? Capable of speeds comparable with jet aircraft and yet virtually silent... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Maglev_Train    


Just a couple of points Ravey.

London to Leeds and vice versa can only be done under 2 hours if there is only one stop at Wakefield.

The other thing is padding, there is padding in the poassenger timetable but its only 2- 3 mins and is at the end of the journey on most services. There are instance where an odd minute will be chucked in for intermediate points/ stops but this is usually to facilitate pathing conflictions with otehr trains such as Grand Central or Hull Trains etc etc.

The working timetable, the one that the railway uses for itself rather than the passenger (published) is much much tighter.

The 530 that Mrs Ravey caught stops at Wfd Wst, Don, Newark, Grantham and Peterborough and due to train regulation and conflicts with FCC stopping services between Hitchin and KX there is about 5 minutes padding on that service, thats because of teh arrival time into teh London area which is peak hours.
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LS1
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Postby LS1 » Thu 26 Jun, 2014 8:49 am

I think the only issue with HS2 should be the cost to benefit consideration.

If I wanted to get an on peak open return to London now to travel tomorrow to get me into London for 9am it would be £250.

If I want to get in for 11.30 I can get a super off peak for £100... but, I'll lose 3 hours working time and if I want to get back at a reasonable hour I'll have to leave at 4pm to get to Kings X for the 4.30pm, so I'd lose 3.5 hours when I could be working.

This is where the real problem is, and if HS2 is going to be twice as expensive you're looking at £500 and £200 respectively on the above prices.

That makes it expensive for companies to pay for let alone an individual!

Having said that we need a rail infrastructure that is fit for purpose and will last for the next 150 years which I doubt the existing one will!

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Postby cnosni » Thu 26 Jun, 2014 12:19 pm

LS1 wrote:
I think the only issue with HS2 should be the cost to benefit consideration.

If I wanted to get an on peak open return to London now to travel tomorrow to get me into London for 9am it would be £250.

If I want to get in for 11.30 I can get a super off peak for £100... but, I'll lose 3 hours working time and if I want to get back at a reasonable hour I'll have to leave at 4pm to get to Kings X for the 4.30pm, so I'd lose 3.5 hours when I could be working.

This is where the real problem is, and if HS2 is going to be twice as expensive you're looking at £500 and £200 respectively on the above prices.

That makes it expensive for companies to pay for let alone an individual!

Having said that we need a rail infrastructure that is fit for purpose and will last for the next 150 years which I doubt the existing one will!


I would hope that whoever operates the HS2 franchise will realise that those sort of prices will leave them with empty trains.
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raveydavey
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Postby raveydavey » Thu 26 Jun, 2014 9:18 pm

Thanks for the clarification cnosni - You pick bits up here and there, so it's good to get the inside picture.


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Postby cnosni » Fri 27 Jun, 2014 1:44 am

raveydavey wrote:
Thanks for the clarification cnosni - You pick bits up here and there, so it's good to get the inside picture.



Just to point out i left KX 11 late tonight, left Peterborough 13 late, got into Leeds 3 late.

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Re: HS2

Postby jim » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:53 pm

There is an item in the new edition of Railway magazine which is headed "Resurgence for Northern Railways". In it , Paul Griffiths, Phase 2 development director for HS2, mentions as part of a process of continuous review that "the relocation of the proposed HS2 Leeds terminus from south of the river to the current conventional station would maximise rail usage". At last some common sense on the subject, provided that sufficient platform space can be made available.

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Re: HS2

Postby jim » Tue 03 May, 2016 12:53 pm

There is an item in the new edition of Railway Magazine which is headed "Resurgence for Northern Railways". In it , Paul Griffiths, Phase 2 development director for HS2, mentions as part of a process of continuous review that "the relocation of the proposed HS2 Leeds terminus from south of the river to the current conventional station would maximise rail usage". At last some common sense on the subject, provided that sufficient platform space can be made available.

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